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Author Topic: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!  (Read 1003 times)

Simmo

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Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« on: Tue, 13 Mar 2018, 22:36:00 »
I see Orbx has released Meigs Field for X-Plane.
For those die-hard X-Plane users who have never used FSX and who might be confused about the 'hoohah' Meigs Field was the general start airfield for various iterations of Microsoft flight simulator since version 4? I think we are supposed to be grateful that we finally have a copy of this famous but dead (it was bulldozed many years ago) airfield to call our very own.
I guess you can tell from my tone that I feel a bit cold regarding this. Not that Meigs field is not good looking.. it is.. it is after all produced by Orbx.
During X-Plane 10's reign the owner of Orbx adamantly refused to consider producing for Laminar's masterpiece then reconsidered and then backed off again and now X-Plane 11 is proving popular he has deigned to try and suck some money out of us by supplying us with Meigs. Is this the beginning of the end? I am worried that flooding X-Plane with expensive 'must have' global scenery will stifle the innovation that many scenery creators have shown over the years on X-Plane. For example, do you think clever programmers would be bothered to create things such as Ortho4XP or X-Europe if perhaps 90% of people have spent hundreds of pounds to be locked into the Orbx world order?
You may think that I am overreacting but I can't think of much innovation regarding FSX or P3D on the scenery front since OrbX appeared.
Argument welcomed!

Mac@Bath

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 08:17:27 »
Would you like a five-minute argument; a fifteen-minute argument, or the full one-hour package?”
If you smiled at that, then you clearly remember Monty Python’s wonderful skit on the subject.
It is called “nostalgia”!
For many of us, Meigs was THE first ....only?.... airfield we could “fly” from and to.   Prior iterations of the FlightSim world had incorporated simply a garish green bit and a violent blue bit...... in an effort to teach us budding fliers that we ‘needed’ to keep the blue at the top...🙄
‘Landings’ required us to identify a single grey line ...usually in front of us!... and a single grey jet let us all soar the skies, without a cloud - or care for air-safety! - to fill the hours of fun to be had.
Love, or hate “volumetric” clouds, Rex weather engines, global trees (relevant to specific natural continents),3-d buildings (with photo-quality landmarks), GAs, big-tins, choppers, flyable reindeer, space-shuttles, and “Bob” (no, not that one!) have - ALL - broadened our simming experiences.
Nostalgia sells.....
Get used to it!

We ...every one of us... started our individual “flying”, as kids, by running around the playground with our arms outstretched .....going “whoooooo”!
The mature (= still alive!) simmers world did NOT start with X-plane!!
It is NOT - necessarily - the ‘best thing since sliced bread’!

Some who ‘fly’ may get enormous pleasure out of staring at their screens for hours.....whilst the requisite number of Orth-tiles download (within the day, if you have broadband!...which early simmers did not!) whilst others actually LIKE the convenience of downloading hours worth of free planes, airports and scenery.   Others are even happy(ish) to PAY for their choice of eye-candy......and to then fly the craft of their choice, over the countryside of their choice, to the destination of their choice.
With a great big smile on their face.😁 😁 😁
Others seem to like repairing broken tile-sets, or ‘integrating’ aspects of their sim’s myriad of add-ons & plug-ins (or waiting for “someone” to create something new/extra that (may) work in THEIR CHOICE of sim.
Others.....I shan’t name them!....seem to get perverse pleasure from “breaking” whichever Sim they have (or all of them!) and reinstalling and tweaking them...ad infinitum.

FS9, FSX, P3D (1,2,3,4) and X-Plane ALL have their champions...
...AND their own individual business/financial plans!
But “MY” one is simply ‘the best’!  At the moment......
Is my time up yet, or can I pay for a longer one?? 😎 😎
B
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 08:20:57 by Mac@Bath »

Simmo

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 11:32:38 »
Thanks for your 5? minute argument Barry.
I totally agree with you.
Woo-hoo and yay for flight simming but... has there been any innovation regarding ground scenery in the FSX P3D world?. Actually you mentioned Global trees. I have just remembered that P3D introduced 'Speed Trees' waving about in the wind which I thought was very good but I have heard that Orbx Global trees overwrites them? (doesn't fit in with the new world order :()
What else? :)

g-bobb

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 21:21:55 »
oh dear.
do we need a fire extinguisher to put out this flame war lol.
from what ive read orbx are doing what uk2000 have done.
they have seen an opportunity to port across p3d stuff to xplane now that
xplane is becoming more popular, and they hope to make more money by rehashing it to xplane..
its personal choice but for me at least with xplane there are freeware designers
and ill live with and donate to them.
others may wish to part with  their dollars to have the latest thing.
i have  p3d  and ive bought stuff in the recent sale for p3d.
i wont however be buying orbx stuff for xplane cos the open source freeware standard is good enough.
(just look at misterx airports and zibos 737 .)
its horses for courses and you pays your money (or not) and takes your chance.

Mac@Bath

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 08:49:07 »
Sorry, Bob, but I would now have to argue (!!!) that you have misunderstood my response......
That wasn’t a ’flame’, indeed Dave shared his agreement.
But, we can ALL agree that there are a wide range of commercial businesses now contributing ....and making individually small profits from ... their own areas of ‘expertise’ (whether in scenery, planes, environments & tweaks) that can - at our choice - further enhance the massive enjoyment we ALL get from this hobby.
Some we (choose to) pay for, others are free.

Indeed I would FAR rather offer greater encouragement to the many Home-based innovators who enhance our hobby (like the developers of JoinFS & PlanG/NavMap etc) or to those who proved ‘free’ upgrades to the next iteration of our first-purchased base products - like Orbx - than LHM & MS ...who charge us extra ......simply to keep up to date.


But.....isn’t it rather more frustrating that it would seem to be Microsoft (the acknowledged starting point for all of our platforms) no longer TESTS its weekly ‘free’ patches & “upgrades” and their - frequently disruptive & negative! - impacts upon this genre of software?
THEY are the ones who undoubtedly made (even more) millions from providing that early software, but have subsequently just walked away from any responsibility for now earning ANY loyalty (from us - mature - simmers).  And still charge us for that privilege!
I truly welcome the likes of Lockheed & Laminar & Rex etc etc now picking up their “different” & individually styled batons of our hobby.
OK, so I may regret that there is a lack of collaborations between them, on making their products truly “cross-platform” ...requiring multiple software purchases a fact of life!
But, you can’t fit Ford wheels on a Beemer or Aston.....fact of life!   There is very little ‘innovation’ in the car-wheel market 🙄 but we do have - and exercise - our own choices.
“Choice” brings with it a “cost”.
And todays’ Fords no longer only come in black!
Even those new fangled “square” wheels ...to stop ALL our carts from rolling downhill backwards (according to ‘Life of Brian’) had a cost .... AND they could be used for improving domestic ‘windows’ !! 😬
I’m applying for a Arguement Season Ticket.....
B 😇


« Last Edit: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 08:50:45 by Mac@Bath »

Pete A (G-SPCA)

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 11:37:33 »
It's interesting to me that Orbx's entry in to Xplane is the one triggering this debate/concern. Others have been in this market for sometime and yet aren't triggering the same response. Is it deep down you're concerned Orbx stuff is so superior others feel they can't compete (free or otherwise) and thus the product choice will actually go down and cost more?
Pete Allnutt
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

Mac@Bath

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 16:14:05 »
A rather different perspective from Pete (and one that I would NOT wish to argue against).....
Indeed, I am not aware of ANY Software Company (or Hardware) that actually sets out to be “second best” in its field.
Thus (I ‘would’ argue!) they actually ALL contribute to a general RAISING of standards ....and that it is this aspect which then fuels our own expectations... whether it be for freeware or for payware.

Think of the default C175...... and then compare THAT, with the mass of “improved” (better, different, bigger, faster, higher-def, etc etc) models now on the market.  Or 4K monitors.   Or Saitek🙄 🙄
But.....simply being the “most expensive” rarely means being “the best” for what WE , individually, want to get from each acquisition.

I still marvel at many of the current “freebie” aircraft - and sceneries - that our amazing skilled hobbyists are prepared to contribute to our fun.  The C47 and P18S being the latest added to my own hangar.

Whilst I may miss the true “photographic” quality of FSX’s old UK-VFR Scenery, especially on & around my ‘home’ territory, I actually DO like the grass that moves when throttling up - in ORBX - even if there are Minnesota Freeways that stop on a cliff-edge, before disappearing into lakes & rivers!  (Or maybe they really DO stop like that?)
And Gary S’s UK2000 Airfields still do take some beating,
B😎
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 16:20:25 by Mac@Bath »

Mac@Bath

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 16:31:56 »
This is potentially a very interesting thread.....
But what do our “BigTin” colleagues think?
Is the FSX ( or FS9 🙄) PMDG 747 really (and honestly) no better than either the P3dv4 or X-Plane versions?   You’ve certainly all had your money’s worth with that beauty!
And is there any more enjoyment to be had ...with your own deeply held preferences...beyond the eight major default Global “Hubs” that you presently gravitate towards (if that is the right word...😇)
Join the thread....?
B
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 Mar 2018, 16:33:41 by Mac@Bath »

Simmo

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 08:12:32 »
Succinctly put Pete.

Orbx's products are 'GLOBAL' products which change the whole feel of the sim. In fact they positively encourage you (of course) to pay for their GLOBAL base pack then the GLOBAL vector pack then GLOBAL region packs, then GLOBAL trees. Orbx has said that is the best way that their airports will fit in and look right. If one programmer/creator produces a small scale product such as an airport or aircraft or utility, another creator/programmer can choose to either ignore or emulate them. I would suggest that nowadays in the FSX/P3D sim platforms if a independent programmer wants his SCENERY product to be successful and used widely then they MUST ensure that it fits into the Orbx New World Order (ONWO.. I've just coined that) If they don't then they might be just wasting their time or at least playing to a small and rapidly diminishing crowd of people who don't want to pay for Orbx stuff.

That is what I mean by stifling creativity.

Look at it this way. You all remember your local high street of 30-40-50 years ago full of independent cafés and shops (of varying quality) thriving very nicely. Now look at it filled with Tesco, Starbucks, Costa and Primark.

Pete A (G-SPCA)

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« Last Edit: Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 09:19:33 by Pete Allnutt »
Pete Allnutt
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

Simmo

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 18:39:05 »
The YouTube vid looks EXACTLY like what I am working on at the moment and of course mine is FREE FREE FREE!
The discussion mentions regional packs.. Kerching! and also seasonal packs.. Kerching! and individual airports.... Kerching, Kerching!
Of course there is no guarantee that your existing airports either payware or free will look right in the new Orbx world.
Current scenery creators should get ready to be marginalized.

Mac@Bath

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 21 Mar 2018, 08:21:31 »
Or....of course....
Those who (now) choose to buy those “different” and  “progressive” new-fangled simulator platforms...... and THEN seek to add (only!) ‘free’ scenery or airports .....could simply accept that - when GROUP-flying on-line - it is THEY who will appear to be taking off or landing from (either) “differently” orientated runways ...or from a “different” elevation ....in “different” weather?   
Or trying to start from their own lonely airfield.... surrounded by miles of apparent open water?
Or is it your contention that it is simply that everybody ELSE in that (“wrong”?) simulated world, are the ones with an ‘issue’?

But, once airborne, well, who knows - or cares - WHICH sim?
(I told you your Ford Anglia radio would look silly - fitted in your new Veyron ....and those narrow steel wheels are a bit Eeeewww! 😱)

Simmo

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 21 Mar 2018, 08:54:46 »
I understand small parts of your argument Barry. But of course you would have to apply it to all those who do not fly with your simulator or your type of scenery or weather engine or utilities or indeed aircraft.. There are differences between FSX and P3D in this respect let alone X-Plane  The end result of your argument says that everyone joins with your standards or cannot play at all.
Which neatly brings me back to my original proposition that in the end Orbx will become the rather sedentary standard that all developers will have to work to if they want their product to be taken seriously.
I predict that it will not be long before even Laminar or Lockheed Martin will start pandering to Orbx 'rules' and hard program those standards into their sims.

Mac@Bath

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 21 Mar 2018, 09:40:24 »
WRONG!!!
We can - ALL - fly together ....and be seen together... even avoid colliding, (unless it’s Len or Alf!!  😇 😇 ), due to the availability of FREE software (like JoinFS and LittleNavMap) ....whatever Flight Sim we have each chosen to use.   
We couldn’t do that when just a few individuals - by their own CHOICE - selected to buy their “different” Sims!

It is, however, sad - but not really surprising? - that the latest iteration of our actual sims WILL use data based upon the “real” world ....of TODAY.   And this means (for example) that Magnetic Progressions have “twisted” the actual runway headings to now be “different” from those first provided within the original Microsoft FS systems.
Same with Navigraph.....I subscribe, but MY airports don’t seem to relocate to match THOSE (updated) charts. 
But I can still find my airports..... even if FMC hard coded arrivals take a bit of rapid  “adjustment” when I’m on short finals!!  (Especially with you other guys sat on my tail watching - and waiting for - a disaster!)
B
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 Mar 2018, 09:42:00 by Mac@Bath »

Pete A (G-SPCA)

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Re: Meigs Field for X-Plane... Yay!
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 21 Mar 2018, 16:11:09 »
I predict that it will not be long before even Laminar or Lockheed Martin will start pandering to Orbx 'rules' and hard program those standards into their sims.
You mean like Flight Sim World that uses Orbx Global textures for its ground polys
Pete Allnutt
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